If I were to sell my SMWW prototype.......

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WindowsKiller
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Post by WindowsKiller » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:08 pm

Captain J wrote: here are the topics discussed on the blackmoon project 3 years ago:

first with the sellers comments (as well as devins and bas's)

http://www.forumplanet.com/classicgamin ... 162362&p=1

and second with me coming in, and it looks like i bought it off of ebay in october of 1993

http://www.forumplanet.com/classicgamin ... id=1181007
Those threads a much younger than the ISO and the first photo. So it's likely that it already was a faked copy. That's what comes to my mind anyway whenever I read "found on the flea market"...

//edit:
Just looked through some of my old backups and found the zipped SMWW prototyp. The ISO's file date is March 5, 2003. The zip file itself is from March 23, 2003; that was the day I got it.

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Post by Captain J » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:42 pm

ok but we still need to explain:

1.why the writing is identical

2.why the code numbers match up (although we may have explained this)

3.why it is on a yamaha disc, one of the prototypes possible media

4.why it was bought at a flea market in the netherlands, which is a cd-i hotbed

im glad i started this topic, its like a research project for fun!
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Post by WindowsKiller » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:01 pm

Good questions, and I can only make some guesses:

1. That's the least you would do when creating a fake. ;) And there's something interesting about the writing: The first "u" and the last "o" in "Super Mario's Wacky Worlds" are looking odd, as they are smaller than all other letters. I've never seen this on any other SMWW prototyp.

2. If the disc was created from the ISO, it must match up. The question should be: Since it's not on a TDK disc, and was hence *probably* not burned on the same day as the other prototyp disc(s), why are the numbers identical nevertheless?

3. Any proof for this? If there's a code on the disc starting with "YH", it doesn't mean that the disc is from Yamaha. Yamaha never manufactured CD-R's anyway, they only sold discs from other manufacturers under their own brand. There's a tool called "CDRIdentifier", which can read out the manufacturer of the disc. That might give us an answer.

4. The former owner said that, but is it actually true? If it's that rare, how would it end up on a flea market? Authentic stuff is normally leaked by former developers. And most people who sell such stuff clearly state this to fortify its genuineness, provided that it *is* authentic.

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Post by Captain J » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:18 pm

WindowsKiller wrote:There's a tool called "CDRIdentifier", which can read out the manufacturer of the disc. That might give us an answer.
i downloaded cdrindetifier but it wouldnt reconize either of my dvd drives that i have (1 emachines reader, 1 hp writer) any other suggestions for programs?
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Post by Devin » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:22 pm

WindowsKiller wrote:1. That's the least you would do when creating a fake. ;) And there's something interesting about the writing: The first "u" and the last "o" in "Super Mario's Wacky Worlds" are looking odd, as they are smaller than all other letters. I've never seen this on any other SMWW prototype.
Yeah I agree there does seem to be some oddities when comparing the writing of this prototype against other versions of the SMWW prototypes.
WindowsKiller wrote:2. If the disc was created from the ISO, it must match up. The question should be: Since it's not on a TDK disc, and was hence *probably* not burned on the same day as the other prototype disc(s), why are the numbers identical nevertheless?
All the writings I saw were identical for whatever reason!
WindowsKiller wrote:3. Any proof for this? If there's a code on the disc starting with "YH", it doesn't mean that the disc is from Yamaha. There's a tool called "CDRIdentifier", which can read out the manufacturer of the disc. That might give us an answer.
Is there also any way to tell when the media was burned by any chance?
WindowsKiller wrote:4. The former owner said that, but is it actually true? If it's that rare, how would it end up on a flea market? Authentic stuff is normally leaked by former developers. And most people who sell such stuff clearly state this to fortify its genuineness, provided that it *is* authentic.
Ha, you'd be surprised! When Philips Media shut down its operations things had a habit of disappearing. Most memorably the developers of Wordplay lost some 4,000 copies when Philips Media London wrapped up its operations.
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Post by WindowsKiller » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:32 pm

@Captain J:
You have to install some ASPI drivers. The ones from Adaptec should do:
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/support/sc ... ASPI-4.70/
Is there also any way to tell when the media was burned by any chance?
No, unfortunately not. :(
Ha, you'd be surprised! When Philips Media shut down its operations things had a habit of disappearing. Most memorably the developers of Wordplay lost some 4,000 copies when Philips Media London wrapped up its operations.
Hehe, shit happens. ;) I guess those 4,000 copies turned up on several flea markets later? :lol:

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Post by Bas » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:23 pm

Super Mario on CD-i still seems hard bitter to all of you ;)

Something Devin posted back there was "One thing that still needs an answer to is this prototype circulating the net presuming there's only one version. The one I tried out had an accessable level map which DID NOT match what the prototype ISO had to offer. Can anybody else confirm this?"

What's this all about....

Joe have you ever compared your version with the ISO available on the internet? If you would find any differences there's your first clue. But when the pressing date is identical this may be worthless. I find Windowskiller's comments pretty reasonable, although they may have written the title on top later than the original pressing. Just for the owner identifying the disc... I don't know. It's all very confusing. I'd be too afraid being ripped off these days with such a proto cd.

To add, once I'm able to copy the content of the Microcosm CD-i disc, I don't really care about the original either. You make me wonder what that one will be worth :shock:

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Post by Devin » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:54 pm

Bas wrote:Something Devin posted back there was "One thing that still needs an answer to is this prototype circulating the net presuming there's only one version. The one I tried out had an accessable level map which DID NOT match what the prototype ISO had to offer. Can anybody else confirm this?"

What's this all about....
Oh, that! Yeah, it was an interesting bug where you couldn't activate certain parts of the menu screen to access particular levels. Turns out all the prototypes are in fact the same the 'accessability' simply varies from player to player! The 370 was the main culprit of non-accessable levels whilst the desktop players like the 210 and 220 seemed to work just fine with SMWW.
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Post by Captain J » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:14 am

mine does have an accesable level map that i described in the old blackmoon forum and about 75% of the levels are accesable. also you have to reset the cd-i when you are finsihed playing the level since there are no endings or pause/restarts
Last edited by Captain J on Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Captain J » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:16 am

Bas wrote:To add, once I'm able to copy the content of the Microcosm CD-i disc, I don't really care about the original either. You make me wonder what that one will be worth :shock:
a good amount, i would imagine! you should see (if you already havent) what prototypes and first editions go for for cart and discs on digital press for collectors. ive seen them go from anywhere from $100-$2,000!
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Post by Captain J » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:46 am

well i just got some interesting news, i finally got it to scan (i had to use nero cd/dvd speed as nothing else would work) and here are my results:

TYPE: DATA CD
MANUFACTURER ID: TAIYO YUDEN (never heard of them)
DATE: MARCH 2, 2003

this is what i found about the company from their website:
"TAIYO YUDEN entered the optical media business
in 1988 with the development of CD-R"

everyones thoughts on this? how can the date be 3 days before the iso file date?
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Post by WindowsKiller » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:23 am

Captain J wrote: TYPE: DATA CD
MANUFACTURER ID: TAIYO YUDEN (never heard of them)
DATE: MARCH 2, 2003
Oh, Nero CD-DVD Speed really showed a date? It never did for me, but that's great anyway. Well, not for you it seems, as it's now proven to be not authentic. btw, Taiyo Yuden is probably the largest manufacturer of CD-R's; Sony, TDK, Maxell, Philips, Mitsumi, Verbatim, and a lot of other brands are often CD-R's made by Taiyo Yuden.
Captain J wrote: everyones thoughts on this? how can the date be 3 days before the iso file date?
I'm afaid to say that, but there's only one possibility. That is, it was made by the same guy who also created and spread the iso.

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Post by Captain J » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:04 pm

WindowsKiller wrote:I'm afaid to say that, but there's only one possibility. That is, it was made by the same guy who also created and spread the iso.
ok but if that were true and this disc was used to start the whole iso spread, where did he get THIS disc? he couldnt have made it from an iso as it was used to start it. are you saying that this is a direct copy of one of the original prototypes?
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Post by Captain J » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:05 pm

WindowsKiller wrote: Oh, Nero CD-DVD Speed really showed a date? It never did for me, but that's great anyway.
yeah it was actually pretty easy, i didnt even have to install the program, just run the executable, and it had a small tab that gave you all the info. there was actually a ton of more info abouty the disc, but i only printed what was relevant to what we were talking about.
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Post by Bas » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm

it seems to me, after he discovered how to copy an image of the original, he created a fake copy and tried to make some money with it... With the date you mention, you can't deny it being a fake then.

All very bad, but there are more signs for it being a fake, rather than being an original.

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